Some of you may know me from MT. I'm considering taking the plunge and doing an LS swap. Considering it, anyway. I'm in Afghanistan right now and won't start the swap until winter 2011.

I'm about to start looking around for answers and lurking, but if anyone wants to chime in on my main question feel free: Can I pull off an LSx swap (with rearward mounting position) for under 11k?

 

You can't without using mostly junkyard stuff. The kits are 4k-5k and then you start putting in the cash. The car could be a rat as your planning to tear the interior out to cut up the tunnel. so 2k plus for that. The shocks were a surprise to me as they had to be adjustable to get over the big CV axles. 1-2k for them. It really adds up fast but it all dependson what you want for the finished product.

 

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I already have the car:




It already has Bilstein HDs and Ground Control coilovers (adjustable, I assume you were speaking of ride-height adjustability and not dampening) and I did pretty much everything except for the MS install and dyno tuning myself. I would be doing the swap in my mechanic brother-in-law's garage in Jacksonville, where he has a welder and a lot more tools than I do.

 

Welcome over here.

Do you plan on having power steering or AC?

Short answer- you can do it on that budget.

If I was going to do it again-

Shove 3.6 gears in your stock torsen and fab up a torque arm.

V8R swap kit

L33 engine

ASA Cam, LS6 valve springs, Ti retainers

Sanderson headers

Enthuzacar header back exhaust

T56 F-body trans that needs rebuilt so you can build it right

PRC radiator

OEM 99+ F-body harness/pcm (if you plan to play with the engine, run an 01-02 pcm to save the grief on tuning)

LS6 intake, and whatever year throttle body your PCM/harness is


Remember, you'll be selling a bunch of your turbo4 stuff and a newb will love you up and down for a ready to run good condition kit with a pretuned PCM.

Eventually I'll convince someone to run the stock rear. No one has given it a shot yet, and I would have if I'd known we could get 3.6 gears for it at the time instead of putting together this 3.7 Mazda Frankenstein rear. The weak link in them is the aluminum housing, and we already know the FC NA/GXL housing is the same size but more stout.

 

Good to hear.

I'm going to quote you below and add in my questions:

 

I believe you can do it for 11 but you have to then consider what you'll end up with after all the work. This type of project involves much more than just swaping in the motor. If you're gonna do it ....do it right. Half measures will result in a lot of disappointment and , in the long run, wasted time and money. I'm figuring on about 25. Motor: 7, trans: 2, rearend: 1
kit: 6, suspension: 1, brakes: 2, wheels/tires: 2, other pieces/parts/materials: 4. Good luck

 

The V8R kit is what FM uses, so I just bought it from the source.

The L33 is a HO 5.3 which should make the same power as an f-body 5.7- 600 dollars

Built right- rebuilt with billet keys, bronze shift forks, and if its a 98-00 trans, a steel shift fork- around 900 dollars.

I have a 99 harness and PCM. Its just more of a pain to tune because you have to tune the primary VE table along with the secondary table. When in SD mode, you can't use RTT on HPTuners to tune on the fly because it doesn't tune on the secondary VE, only the primary. 01-02 PCM's have a single VE table. It works, its just one more step to tuning.

 

I'm finding running F-bodies in the 4-6k range, so I think your numbers for the engine/trans are a bit high. Why do you value the kit at 6k when it's listed at just over 3k on FM's site?

Other than that, my car already has wheels and tires (what do the V8 guys usually run for street rubber anyway?) and if the 700lb front springs I'm running aren't up to the job, it'll be a lot less than $1000 to change them out.

I will need better brakes if I plan to track it, you're right. Your figure there seems about right for a name-brand big brake kit.

I'm not meaning to flame you, but your $25000 estimate flies in the face of the majority I've corresponded with who estimate 10-12k.

I misread your L33 post as LS3, sorry. I think if I'm going to do it, I'm going to go for LS1 or better.

The trans is something I'll just want to get in and done and get the car running. I have a habit of getting lost in small side projects too and I think that's something I could better do later to save downtime.

I need an acronym check on your last paragraph. SD? RTT? Why is there a secondary VE table?? Is there some sort of VICS or other system that warrants it?

 

Real Time Tuning

Speed Density

No clue as to why GM put the secondary VE table in, but its something more to deal with.

For brakes, Sav has you covered for 600 dollars.

I have 4XX rate springs up front which are fine, and am using NT01's up front and MT's in the rear for street duty.

You'd be surprised how much difference the 5.3 makes vs the turbo4. Its a damn BEAST, and gets you comfortable while saving money for a real engine.

 

Yeah, I probably will go with Sav's kit. Keep the money in the community, right?

So for the PCM, it's better to look for a 01-02? Sounds like it, since it has the single VE table. Did I read that correctly?

My suspension is 700f, 325r w/ 25mm front and 15mm rear solid sways, Bilstein HDs, and RB endlinks and front swaybar mount reinforcement. Also FCM 40mm bumpstops and their NB tophats. Sounds like my suspension is already suited to a big lump up front if you're doing fine with 400# springs.

What size tires are you running, especially in the back? I'm on 15x8 6ULs w/ 225-50-15 RS2s.

 

The kit I'm referencing is Boss Frog. Front cross member, Trans mount, drive shaft, rearend mount, rear axles, clutch kit, etc.

engine is one I'm using from Patriot performance. 383 stroker, 500hp, 380flb. requires alternator, carb, oil pan, ignition system

Trans is '98 Z28 T56

Clutch is high performance street/strip McCloud

Ford 8 rearend...3.90 posi-trac

still looking for radiator to handle engine and air

Miata big brake kit

suspension ....springs, shocks, anti-roll bars

supports/bracing

this stuff is not needed but I'm adding Roll Bar, fender flairs, air dam and rear spoiler, fiberglass seats, hood scoop

exhaust system

then have to consider costs for all the little niggily stuff....belts, pullies, fastners, wiring, additional tools, etc

I know I'm going to be on the high end but that's the way I want to build because I'm using high performance bullit proof stuff.

Considering the additional weight I want a motor with enough hp to offset that weight increase.....my thoughts are that, otherwise, I could spend much less money modifying the Miata engine and get just as much performance in a much lighter car.

My motor is major expense...all the good stuff and pretty much turn key. I could build one myself but those days are long gone. I can buy one ready to go with tons of power for less than it would cost me to build the same engine myself (and none of the work).

I certainly don't mean to rain on your project....I'm just trying to be realistic. Better to be prepared than to get into your project and get discouraged by unexpected costs in money and time. Thanks, Tony

 

I hear you. I'm looking for the time being to just get the engine in and running well, I'll worry about going for big power and money later. I think we're talking apples and oranges anyway, you and I. I'm looking at the budget to swap my already sorted car, and your budget includes items unrelated to the swap itself.

Later on down the road I'll look at camming the engine and whatnot, but likely not anything internal. Simple stuff.

I won't get discouraged, I've been down this engine swap road before with a prior car and I'm going to make sure this one works out like that one did - without drama due to diligent planning and research, which is part of what brought me here. I did that swap in my parents' driveway with hand tools in three days (including a big chunk trying to figure out wiring differences), without having ever removed an engine before.

As for the money, lets just say it's not an issue. I've reenlisted for what I hope can be the last time and between that tax-free lump sum and my hostile fire pay, etc. I'm doing great.

 

For around 400, you can have the PRC radiator and the 1 gallon surge tank that takes the place of the factory overflow. Then jump on Ebay and buy a 2 speed Taurus fan. Low speed flows as much as a 16" spal, and high speed is just NUTS! If you go that route with the f-body PCM, I'll send you the wiring diagram to wire it up correctly. The fan fits the radiator like a glove. I couldn't believe how well they fit together.

You are correct, the 01-02 is the preferred unit, but 99-00 is easy enough to deal with that its not THAT much of a problem.

I had 225/45 NT01's on it for a few miles, but after blowing the tires off in the first few gears, I put the 235/60 MT's on it and it hooks fairly well.... even in 1st!

Leebo has 225/50 MT's on the back of his car with 225/45 NT01's and they look VERY nice on the car.

You can find a trans in need of a rebuild for 500-700 dollars. The rebuild/build kit is around 800, and I don't know what rebuilding them costs in your area. I do my own, and have charged locals around 150 to do a total rebuild.

Tony- you will need to change the input shaft, front plate, and bellhousing to make that T56 work with an old LT1 IIRC

 

I'm guessing my 37mm Koyo is going to be a little inadequate from a hose-routing standpoint, eh? Is it any Taurus fan that'll do (are we talking about a Ford Taurus?)?

Thanks for the input on the tires. Do you DD on the MTs?

 

I like the extra room the prc unit gives. Nathan and prc did a great job designing it to tuck in real nicely.

Yeah, the Taurus fan is out of the older Ford Taurus's from the early 90's. If you search on eBay, they are everywhere.

I haven't dd'd this car with them, but I did the ws6 on 555r's. Keep it under 40 when its wet and you'll keep the car from swapping ends.

 

don't discount a truck harness. they are very self contained and easy to pull at the yard (there is lots more room to get to everything vs the f-body.), while you are at it, grab an "0411" pcm from a truck.

 

What's the 0411 PCM and why do I want it?

 

12200411 is the service number on a sticker on the pcm. they are cheap, plentiful, will run numerous different engine combinations, allow real time tuning, speed density only mode, and control a two speed e-fan without problems.

 

Are these things that your typical F-body ECU won't do?

 

0411 is the 01-02 F-body ecu. the 'good' one that lets you do real time tuning, and e-fan, etc. just usually cheaper if it says "truck" on it

 

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up!

Right now the plan is to find a running F-body and gank what I need from it. This way I know that the engine is good (or at least running), and I get all the little stuff I need too. Then I can part out the rest of the car and make a couple bucks back.

 

Bumping this to ask y'all how crazy I am.

I have another 11 months in Afghanistan before I can even think about beginning. In that time I plan to arrange for everything to be waiting for me in Jacksonville, FL at my brother-in-law's house. His garage is wired up for welding (for the trans tunnel) and is generally just a good place to work with plenty of tools, as he's a VW tech. I'll also have access to his knowledge in wiring and my M.E. father lives just up the road from his house. Perfect. Plus I think there are some LS-swapped Miatas in Jax already, yes?

The reason I ask if I'm crazy is because of the time frame I'll have to do the swap - 4 weeks. I won't be working during this time, just dedicating my days to finishing the swap. Are there any good reasons why this won't work? Am I overlooking anything? I know I can get the engine and trans out in an hour myself if I need to, to give y'all an idea of how familiar I am with the Miata. I see the big challenge being wiring for me.

Are there any instructions I can study in the (11 month long) meanwhile? V8R's are hidden until you purchase the kit from them. I understand why, but at the same time I'd like to look over them to ensure I have all my ducks in a row before I take the plunge.

Thanks much!

 

The swap can be done in 4 weeks. Being that it is your first I doubt that it will happen. I have a collective 4 weeks of just standing around looking at my project. I will be very impressed if you can get together and work out the problems in that time.

 

Speaking of problems, what kinds of problems have you and others run into?

I'm sure it's doable in 4 weeks, barring problems. Has to be. I'd really like your input about what unexpected issues cropped up during your build.