200hp? FUNNY STORY:
NA/B 90-2005 - LFX products - V8 Roadsters

 

I like the fact that the car comes in below factory weight, that the engine sits further rearward than a stock 4 cylinder, and that the tubular subframe should allow for a well-tucked exhaust. Maybe someone will eventually fab up some long tube headers which could further wake up the mid-range in an already powerful engine package.

I was once on the path of putting a 3.4L 60 degree Chevy V-6 from a '94 Camaro in the early Miata chassis (before I was seduced to the dark V8 side). Somewhere I have photos of that little six sitting in the engine bay. Because it is a pushrod engine, it looks almost tiny. Proportion-wise, it reminded me of a small block V-8 sitting in a late 60's/early 70's Chevelle. In fact, without the front dress installed, there was so much room between the engine and the stock Miata radiator that I could stand inside the engine bay.

 

+1 ^^ I looked at a F body 3.8 V6 from a 99 Firebird as a part of my looking under every rock quest but the numbers just did not make sense. No matter how you slice it cost, effort or performance wise there is no benefit to doing a V6.

However that was before the new LFX set up posted above. That I feel is a true game changer that is well worth looking at. BUT make no mistake it is not and never will be the new V8 and any that that says the V6 is the new V8 needs hearing aids...

 

Well, today's v6 kills even most V8s from as early as the 90s. 215-260hp 4.6l SOHC mustangs... 305hp in the top of the line WS6 LT1s. Its not the end-all be all, but it puts forth a good argument for itself as far as cost/weight/efficiency goes. Want a fun car that gets 30mpg? Not a bad choice. V8 for melting faces, clearly.

 

No question you hit the nail on the head and I absolutely agree with you. Todays V6s are excellent and make plenty of power to make cars fun.

But that is a very different statement than to say the V6 is the new V8. Todays V8s are just as much more powerful than 6 bangers as they have ever been at any point in history. Comparing todays V6 to yesterdays V8 is pointless because of course every aspect of todays cars performance is better than it was years ago.

And it's so easy to demonstrate how stupid that statement really is. Any of todays V6 mini vans have more power, stop better, handle better, and get better mileage than a 1970 Boss 302 Mustang. So put a heart rate monitor on your wrist and hit the key in that boss and see what happens. OK now do it in the van and tell me again how the V6 is the new V8...

 

Well, true, but in a few ways, the v6 can (and is) replacing V8s in some performance applications. Ala F-150/Taurus SHO. Though not a "vee", the BMW 335i TT i6 is a contender as well. And keep in mind, a TT v6 in the show or ford f-150 is bottlenecked as shipped. A bit of tweaking and you're at a nice 400hp, with decent mpg.

2015 Ford Taurus SHO Pricing, Features & Specs | Edmunds.com

 

2 words come to mind. Exhaust note!

There is no question that 400hp and good mileage is very appealing and for many applications is a better alternative than a V8. I really feel the LFX in the Miata is probably the best all around transplant for the car. For the cost the power and the MPGs I don't think it can be beat. But there is nothing new about the SHO numbers. With the same bit of little tweaking a 1995 era Supra TT or a 3000 GTR TT or the 300ZX TT would do just as well and in those days there was no V8 that would come close. Apparently the folks that say the V6 is the new V8 forgot that the bottom of the line naturally aspirated 93 Supra made more HP and got better mileage than the top of the line 93 Mustang with a high output V8 did!

But it just doesn’t matter how good the new V6s are they can never be what they are not. It’s the same things we heard in the recording industry in the 70s when the really good electric pianos and drums started showing up. They can do many things better and sound amazing, but after 45 years of engineers trying to make them be the real thing they still lack the depth and the soul of acoustic instruments. And so it is with engines. Sure the new V6s make great power, get better mileage and fit in places a V8 can't. But they will never produce the same torque, or cacophony of sound and tactile input that a V8 does. Take the 1970 Boss 302 Mustang again and swap the SHO TT engine in it. It will have better balance, get better mileage and be way faster. But at best it will split the difference between the mini van and the real Boss on the heart monitor...

 

Ok. One more.

Heart monitor, you say?

Damn aussie's having all the fun.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...3qyAkxvASn9pVA

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...51YIy5FIKk0oqg

 

Ya know it just dawned on my this might be a matter of warped perspective on my part. When I was growing up there was a guy 2 houses down that had a mid 60s big block vette convert with huge side pipes and enough work done on it to sound bigger than any thunderstorm. My brother and I would go off like big dogs in heat every time he came by with it. It took me a couple summers to realize my brother was going woody for the guys wife and I never even noticed she was in the car. To this 13 year old the big block vette fired up way more endorphins than the D cup blond did!

 

LOL I think this makes the point better...

 

I have to tell you this discussion has been the most fun I've had in weeks on line but did it ever dawn on you how nutzo it is? Every person reading this agrees what is happening in your garage is 3 clicks off the end of the epic scale including yourself! V6 Taurus my *** you are building our dream car up there!

 

To the point your post alludes, I have to agree it depends on how you define "best." If the engine is strictly a tool to accomplish a task, and the LFX tool provides great power with competitive cost, low weight, improved chassis balance, and good fuel economy, it's hard to argue against the superiority of that tool. For a wide spectrum of use, it empirically accomplishes what a performance-oriented driver might need.

So the real question is less about what we need and more about what we want. Starting with a 20+ year old, tiny 2-seater car with a trunk barely big enough to hold a small picnic basket and a large blanket, with a sparsity of sheet metal frighteningly easy to scrunch up between the duals on a Peterbuilt tractor, then shoehorning an engine into it with more horsepower than said Peterbuilt...well, it doesn't exactly scream practicality.

It would be hard to define the demographic that NEEDS this car. Yet therein lies the beauty and essence of it. Most will build these conversions because it is what they WANT, not because of any empirical equation comparing driveline hardware. Typically it's less an exercise of the head than an expression of the heart.

Exactly! I have a relatively new minivan that, as a daily transportation device, gives me as much satisfaction as any vehicle I've owned. Yet it sits in the driveway, baking in the Florida sun, while my 25 year old V8 Miata (worth less money) is coddled in the garage.

I really like my minivan, but I love my V8 Miata. Love is rarely rational. Yet nothing else makes us so happy. That, I submit, is how so many V8 engines end up in these cars.

 

Sunshine you are so epic! So many quotes you just wrote that will be reused in threads and wall posts for years to come! Well done!

 

Agree. As much as I love the sound of a push rod V8 with a healthy cam rumble, an air cooled flat six at full scream gives me goosebumps. Don't ask me were I developed the tastes. As the son of a public school teacher and a Triumph motorcycle mechanic, lord know I was never around such machines. But to this day, I love that sound. The wife's Cayman S sounds nice, but not quite the note of an air cooled Porsche. When my ship comes in, it'll have one on it.

 

You guys have made some awesome points and I might add an observation I made recently:

When I went to the local Ford dealership to check out the new Mustang, I was disappointed to find that they didn't have any 5.0s in stock. The salesman insistently wanted to show me the V6 which I thought was a total waste of time since I had driven a V6 version and wasn't impressed with the power or exhaust note. Since it had the remote start FOB he pressed it and the car came to life.

I was expecting the trying to play with the big boys sound of a 90s Lumina Z34 but what I got was something different. To me, it was so totally different from what all Pee6s had ever sounded like, that I thought maybe, just maybe, it was a V8. After a few revs to confirm the 2 missing cylinders, I think my jaw dropped a little. It was deep, throaty (minds out of gutter here) bold sound with enough rasp to say power without saying import tuner.

Having said all of that, my point is that the modern V6s are great. However, if I could shoehorn a Coyote in my car, it would be my first option just because it is a V8, looks cool as heck, has nasty power, and best of all - sounds like a V8.

 

I really wanted a Flat 6 corvair in a karmann-ghia at one time. Those are neat swaps, and with a few options for the corvair motor could be a pretty quick, fun little car. Miata was/is a better option, but that would be a car with a whole lot of character.

And in the end, this is a "different strokes for different folks" kind of thread (I'm so punny.) I'll give you, nothing is going to replace the V8 for me. But I could (and have) swing a turbo V6 all day over a V8, and in our work trucks, the extra few MPG is well worth it, not to mention I think they actually have more power and likely pull better.

And on that note, it reminded me of another different stroke, for the crazy japanese folks... I'm glad to have a washer bottle from one of these cars.

 

Back when I was 18 (30 yrs ago) my good friend had a Mazda MX3? with the big 300HP "B" series rotary. The funny thing was the 280HP rating was at 7200RPM--- I kid you not he used to rev that thing to 17000 or so RPM. Wish we had digital devices back then, he would wrap the tach. and be back at 5500 rpm. Loved the little rising sun sticker inside the door jamb. Long story short is it out handled, out mileaged,and beat all the Nasty Big Block cars of the time. What did we cruise with? not the rotary, lol, that was for going to work. He drove a 70 454SS Camaro (still owns) and I a 63 Sprint Falcon with a 289HiPo (260 original), Cool Factor I suppose. Do miss those crazy 15000 RPM shifts but I bet a new rotary would be a blast in a Miata. My 90 MX5 is getting a Ford 331, Why?, I am honest - I think it has more cool factor to use a V8 and you can't beat the rumble / compression skids.

Dean0

 

That little guy is really cute and reminds me of one of my favorite videos of all time on youtube. It's so good I put it in my important links of my blog. Why? Because it answers so many questions about these cars in such an eloquent. Because we can!

Great exhaust note in this one...

 

Moving content from a taurus thread because it took on a life of it's own and it's a great thread.